--- Stavros Macrakis <stavros.macrakis@verizon.net> wrote:
> Fateman:
> > > I suspect that any real user would want the same [simple
> > > install], and more. Like complete and accurate documentation, an
> > > uninstall script, etc.
Hang in there - it's coming.
> Jarausch:
> > Let me say that I'm a bit surprised by your attitude to FREE
> > software!... But in the case of free software I consider it may
tiny
> > contribution to help in finding bugs. Those who fix the bugs do a
> > lot of work and the burden to check successful build and tests
> > should be shared to a much larger group.
It pretty much is by default anyway. But my feeling is that from a
logistical point of view, it makes far more sense to have those who are
skilled mathematically focus on that part of the game. There are
relatively few people who are able to do such work. I don't want
Richard to have to waste his time compiling either - he's qualified to
work on much harder problems. That's what goobers like me are good for
- I can muddle around breaking things in a build process as well as
anyone, but I can't contribute mathematically. The more time he and
the other skilled math folk have for the hard mathematical problems,
the better it is for everyone.
> There are many useful roles in a free software project. Rich is
> offering to contribute in debugging the Maxima code, as am I (I have
> filed 43 bug reports so far, several including patches -- how many
> have you filed?). Neither he nor I is interested in building Lisp or
> Maxima from scratch, and very few if any end users (especially on
> Windows or Mac) will be interested in doing that either. It is
> perverse to put the burden of "checking successful builds" on EVERY
> SINGLE USER of the system! -- unless, that is, we only want code
> jockeys to be using the system.
Obviously not. Remember, though, we've had a long way to come to get
to the point of being able to think about more friendly packages, so
the burden has basically landed by default on those who want to work
with the system. I think that's what Helmut means. We're almost there
now though, thanks to some amazing efforts from some very skilled
people. Once the build process is stabilized on Windows, we should be
able to generate packages on a fairly regular basis. If you look back
at 5.6, and compare it to today, it's like night and day. Nuts and
bolts stuff isn't much fun, but needs to get done - my guess (hope) is
the Great Source Downcasing will be the last major nut and bolt issue.
Then a lot of people on the list will be much happier, since program
design and mathematical issues can take center stage.
> I may end up using the CVS tree for the Lisp code (not the C code)
> because it is frustrating to spend time tracking down a bug and
> writing a patch only to discover that someone else has already fixed
> the bug (as has happened to me a couple of times).
Jim, this is an interesting point - would it be possible find out how
Camm is doing his nightly gcl builds on mingw and impliment something
similar for Maxima?
> I also agree with Rich that improving the code is not the only useful
> thing. Some people will want to write various kinds of documentation
> -- reference material, tutorials, etc. -- that doesn't require
> building the system from scratch, either. I am a bit surprised by
> your attitude that free software should NOT have good documentation,
a
> clean install and uninstall, etc.
I don't think anyone thinks we shouldn't have those things. He's just
surprised that some people aren't willing to mess with the build
process. I can't honestly blame them for that - they have other demands
on their time, not necessarily related to Maxima. If contributing is
only of interest when the process doesn't involve lots of time working
on things that aren't math related, I can understand that. Of course,
that means someone else has to handle that part of it first, and from
Maxima's point of view things take longer, but it's part of the game.
People only contribute how and when they want to, and that's fine. We
need testers, and we need mathematical people. The groups and skill
sets may not always overlap. We are grateful for any contributions, be
it testing, code, documentation, mathematical routines, etc.
CY
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