Using TeX (Was RE: [Maxima] imaxima, xemacs and windows)

There was a masters' project done by John Foderaro to
do linebreaking and output macsyma stuff to an earlier
typesetting system  (EQN, maybe even still available?)
The system, photot  had parmeters for font size,
line length etc.

What probably could be done is some open-source
line-breaking math-ml formatter should be found and
adapted so to our needs. A macsyma to mathml
translator should not be difficult. I don't know
about making the result viewable in imaxima, xemacs, etc
and (has this been mentioned) how to interact with it, e.g. select
subexpressions.

I don't expect first efforts to solve all problems;
it is just that sometimes incrementally improving "ok"
programs does not lead to a solution.  Like trying to
get to the moon by making longer and longer ladders.



RJF



C Y wrote:
> --- Stavros Macrakis <stavros.macrakis@verizon.net> wrote:
> 
>>>>If we could get maxima itself to generate TeX with the
>>>>proper breaking included it would be wonderful,...
>>>
>>Why bother with TeX at all if it can't handle line breaking?
> 
> 
> It's not a question of Maxima using TeX as its default output format
> for graphics - that's not the reason to output TeX.  The reason for TeX
> output is to easily fit Maxima output and sessions into LaTeX
> documents. That I have found to be a very nice feature, and worth the
> occasional tweaking of the TeX output at need.
> 
> I think the current approach, at least for now, is sufficient -
> apparently Richard disagrees.
> 
> 
>>For Maxima to generate line breaks for TeX, it would have to know all
>>the details of font sizes, kerning, page width, etc.  If it has to
>>know all these things, it is not generating portable output, and it
> 
> is 
> 
>>not benefitting from TeX's algorithms.  So it might as well generate
>>Postscript directly.
> 
> 
> In the case of a full featured, robust graphical interface with 2D
> display for Maxima, I agree that TeX is not the proper native display
> format to use.  That will be one component of the interface discussion
> when the time comes.  However, when the time does come, it is almost a
> certainty that to do true graphical mathematical display "right" Maxima
> will have to learn about those things.  If/when we impliment that for
> GUI purposes, it might be useful to have TeX take advantage of it too. 
> But I agree TeX by itself is not sufficient motivation to do it.
> 
> 
>>For standalone use, this also avoids the overhead of the TeX and
>>dvips processes.
> 
> 
> For standalone use we need something altogether different from TeX. 
> This is one area where I like what Mathematica did, at least in general
> - their display technology is excellent for casual/newbie users.
> 
> 
>>For use within a document, presumably TeX handles embedded
>>Postscript.
> 
> 
> I believe it does, but I don't think much would be gained by going that
> route.  If we know enough to generate good postscript my guess is we
> know enough to generate good TeX.  Of course, that's just IMHO, based
> on my understanding of postscript and TeX.
> 
> The problem is not a trivial one, and I don't wonder that Richard is
> less than thrilled with the current state of affairs.  However, I am
> thrilled with Emaxima and what it is accomplishing with the help of
> Imaxima.  For me, with admittedly simple needs, it works wonders.  When
> the time for a full GUI revamp arrives we may come to full grips with
> the problem of graphical math display, but that's definitely a post-6.0
> development.
> 
> If all else fails, one can use the 2D text output in Emaxima, which
> loses all the nice TeX formatting but does get the mathematics in.  I
> did that with one example in the basics chapter until the recent
> addition of breqn support.
> 
> CY
> 
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