downloads, debugs, evaluation. splitting lists.



1. I refuse to download any CVS stuff and I resist all suggestions
that I build versions of anything. I have better things to do with
my time than try to debug C code, makefiles, etc for which I have
no special expertise.

2. If you want me to help debug the macsyma code, I will do so starting
from something like  "install.exe"  on windows.  Bill Schelter
had such an installation setup and I continue to use it more or less
satisfactorily.  If there is a replacement for this which is in all
ways superior, please tell me and I will install it.  I am running
Windows 2000.

3. I suspect that any real user would want the same, and more.  Like 
complete and accurate documentation, an uninstall script, etc.

4. regarding Martin's bug reports;  I have not looked through them all,
and I suspect I am not receiving them now, but at least one of them
I responded to and said I didn't think it was a bug.  I checked and
the semantics of  f(x):=x::1  is the same as the common lisp
(defun f(x)(eval '(set 'x 1)))) .

I am not sure what semantics Martin wishes, but my guess is that
any use of the ::  operator in Maxima is likely to be disappointing.
In 35 years I can't recall ever using it, though there may be
some occasion on which it was appropriate.  The major question,
unresolved, is that when you evaluate x  before assigning 1 to
it's value, WHERE do you evaluate x?  What is the environment.
Macsyma semantics, and indeed all computer algebra systems'
semantics, are a little unusual with respect to evaluation of
symbols. Sometimes x stands for x,  sometimes x stands for its
value.  There are rules for different circumstances, but sometimes
you want to break the rules.
x:2
sum(2^x,x,0,infinity).    do you want to evaluate x in the
expression 2^x?  probably not.

y:2
sum(y^x,x,0,infinity);    do  you want to evaluate y ?

z:y^k
sum(z,k,0,infinity);   do you wnat to evaluate z? yes.

RJF



Martin RUBEY wrote:
>>Regardless of the details, at the heart of this is an expression
>>of frustration that we should all take to heart. 
> 
> 
> I do think so, too.
> 
> 
>>Instructions like "build x lisp only from CVS with version n of gcc
>>but not version m before you build version z of maxima" etc. makes
>>me think we are moving in a way that's getting a little out of hand.
> 
> 
>>It's ok for the core developers (perhaps), 
> 
> 
> Well, maybe I was very lucky, but I found CVS VERY simple to use and had
> no troubles building GCL nor Maxima, on the other hand I do follow the
> list since quite some time now. (Still I'm certainly not a core
> developer...) Moreover, I'm not using xmaxima, and certainly not
> MSWindows.
> 
> 
>>Perhaps one of the problems is that we are miximg intro/devleopers/math/GUI
>>subjects into one mailing list: "Get x from CVS" should never appear on a
>>non-developer's list, IMHO, and when it does, the time has come to break up
>>the list.
>>
>>I suggest something like
>>	maxima-announce
>>	maxima-users
>>	maxima-developers
>>	maxima-cvs
>>	maxima-ui
>>as a breakup of this list. It can be broken up into the sourceforge
>>mailing lists which are now gatewayed both directions into sourceforge
>>newsgroups. Newsgroups I find much easier to read.
> 
> 
> I did suggest something similar, but still more detailed (probably too 
> detailed) some time ago.
> 
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2001/001174.html
> 
> I'm not sure yet whether I will move to Axiom, but for my time with 
> Maxima I renew my offer to make a digest of the mail archive. (Provided 
> that mail is more or less properly tagged) I find it VERY annoying, that 
> sometimes I remember some issue discussed on the list and find my self 
> spending quite some time before I find it again...
> 
> Also I think that after release 5.9 we really should think about 
> changes that might be worth some effort, but might not be compatible with 
> earlier versions. I'm thinking especially of the scoping issue described 
> in the following threads:
> 
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001179.html
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001181.html
> 
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001188.html
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001190.html
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001191.html
> 
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001342.html
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001343.html
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001344.html 
> http://www.ma.utexas.edu/pipermail/maxima/2002/001345.html
> 
> In a different vein, I offer to translate the (french) documentation of
> sym, if there is no translation yet and if there is somebody interested...
> (I do speak a little french, so I won't do it for myself!) In any case,
> sym1.mac should be replaced by the following, because of the restructured
> share directory... (note that there are two different files permut.lisp,
> one in share/sym, another one in share/combinatorics)
> 
> Most important however:
> Thanks for all the great work! I'm really really happy to be able to use a 
> free cas by now!
> 
> Martin
> 
> /* Fichier sym1.mac
>                      Version 02 Mars 1999 sans autoload
> 
> ;       ***************************************************************
> ;       *                    MODULE SYM                               *
> ;       *       MANIPULATIONS DE FONCTIONS SYMETRIQUES                *
> ;       *        (version02: Commonlisp pour Maxima)                  *
> ;       *                                                             *
> ;       *                ----------------------                       *
> ;       *                  Annick VALIBOUZE                           *
> ;       *                    GDR MEDICIS                              *
> ;       *  (Mathe'matiques Effectives, De'veloppements Informatiques, *
> ;       *           Calculs et Ingenierie, Syste`mes)                 *
> ;       *         Laboratoire LIP6 (Equipe Calcul Formel)             *
> ;       *                 Universite' Paris 6,                        *
> ;       *        4 place Jussieu, 75252 Paris cedex 05.               *
> ;       *              e-mail : avb@sysal.ibp.fr                      *
> ;       ***************************************************************
> */
> 
> if ev(schur2comp)='schur2comp then schur2comp : pol;
> if ev(direct)='direct then direct : puissances;
> if ev(oper)='oper then  oper :  meval; 
> if ev(kak)='kak then  kak : 1;
> if ev(elem)='elem then elem : 1;
> if ev(pui)='pui then pui: 1;
> if ev(pui2ele)='pui2ele then pui2ele : girard;
> if ev(somrac)='somrac then somrac: puissances;
> if ev(resulsym)='resulsym then resulsym: 14;
> 
> print(resolvante);
> if ev(resolvante)='resolvante then resolvante: generale;
> print(resolvante);
> if ev(directnew)='directnew then directnew: parallele ;
> 
> print("");
> print("NOTE: To compile the system do");
> print(" cd ",chemin, ";make");
> 
> load("sym/macros.lisp");
> load("sym/util.lisp");
> load("sym/lecteur.lisp");
> load("sym/ecrivain.lisp");
> load("sym/operations.lisp");
> 
> load("sym/arite.lisp");
> load("sym/elem.lisp");
> load("sym/pui.lisp");
> load("sym/chbase.lisp");
> load("sym/schur.lisp");
> load("sym/direct.lisp");
> load("sym/kak.lisp");
> load("sym/partpol.lisp");
> load("sym/multmon.lisp");
> load("sym/permut.lisp");
> load("sym/treillis.lisp");
> load("sym/resolv1.lisp");
> batchload("sym/resolvante.mac");
> 
> 
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